Thats cool and all, and I'mma let you finish, but....
No where in the canon policy does it state developer commentary is canon. Reason being, developer commentary is riddled with personal views, context sensitive bias and only gives us a limited perception, limited to that particular developer in question.
Aside from the obvious failings of using developer commentary as canon, there's a great number of possibilities leading to six's survival.
Immediate deus ex machina: Given the camera shunts away before the killing (Or serious) blow, there's space for plenty of things to happen. In this case, particular Deus Ex Machina is Jun, with Echo team in tow, arriving on the scene in a hijacked Phantom, intent on supporting Six, but getting there quite late. Six is then medevaced with the remnants of Reach's last defenders shortly before the Navy is routed. She then spends the rest of the war in a military hospital.
Medical Technology: Spartans have survived being dead for substantial periods of time, with injuries so grievous by all rights they shouldn't of survived. Linda will be the particular subject of this one. She was struck by several overcharged bolts from plasma pistols, melting through her armour and to the bone, including one that struck her head, melting a hole to her cranium. As well as that, her kidneys and liver were irreparable damaged. She immediately flatlined after getting shot in the head. A while later, she was put in cryostasis, and several weeks later, was thawed out, went into surgery on-board a half destroyed frigate under the hands of Doctor Halsey, and successfully revived her, despite being shot in the head. So Spartans can suffer horrendous injuries, die and be successfully revived later.
This is the Creative Director. As in the guy who oversees the project and makes sure it's up to spec. And he's not stating a personal opinion about something within the game, and idea or whatnot. He is outright stating that Noble Six is dead. It's not an opinion. It's just what happened.
Even if developer commentary is just an opinion, it is simply confirming what we already know to be true.
No, there is not. These are highly trained warriors who have training on par with that of what you'd expect from a warrior culture. They are stronger and faster than Noble Six and thus, there is no real reasonable way to escape. The camera being pulled away occurs less than a second before the stab would have fallen, and a regular human will bleed out from a stab wound in less than sixty seconds. And there are hundreds more Covenant coming, and they own the skies. Please tell me where and how Jun would get the resources in order to do this rescue given that the Covenant owns the skies, and who would be foolhardy enough to even try. August 30th, 2552 is effectively the last day of the Fall of Reach, meaning that all UNSC forces are either in full retreat or outright obliterated, and the glassing of the planet is well underway with thousands of Covenant ships in orbit.
Linda is an S-II, who are much hardier than S-IIIs. She was also given almost immediate medical attention, something that Six would have been unable to receive. She was also cryogenically frozen, which essentially halted the further decay in her body, something else Six would not have the luxury of. Where would the UNSC ship be, for instance? The Pillar of Autumn was the last remaining UNSC capital ship in Aszod, and any capital ship near it would immediately be shot down due to the thousands of Covenant ships that control the skies. If somehow they were able to rescue Six's mangled body, then the only reasonable conclusion is that the ship would be at least near one of Reach's moons in an attempt to avoid detection. That's going to take a long damn time to get to. A lot of people can "die" and be resuscitated later, but that always requires immediate medical attention. Also not too much bleeding, of which Noble Six would be doing a lot of.
It should also be noted that the UNSC has sensor technology that allows them to detect whether a particular ship was destroyed in an artificially created star going nova. And Halsey does note that Six's body was glassed along with the rest of the area. I would think they'd check that, and Halsey definitely would to be sure. Would be awkward otherwise.
I fail to see the difference between what a developer says about a character through the narrative of a game and what they what they say about a character to a camera through the use of their mouth. What Bungie says is what Bungie says; it's rather irrelevant where they say it, as long as it's directly from them.
That camera shot was for dramatic effect, and not to create a cliffhanger. Even if those Elites didn't kill Six, other Elites would have without a doubt done so.
Except that unlike Six, someone went through the effort to find Linda. Medical technology may be able to save your life, but it's useless if you aren't there to be saved by it.
Finally, I can further prove that Six died there because his helmet remains there roughly 30 years later. If he managed to escape from those Elites alive, why wouldn't he pick it back up again, since leaving it behind would be an obvious violation of the Cole Protocol, and since I can pretty much guarantee you that Six would rather die than risk giving away the coordinates to Earth (when Six has no way of knowing that the Covenant already has them), so leaving the helmet in exchange for escaping alive is pretty much out of the question. And if somebody came to get Six, why wouldn't they pick his helmet upp for the same reason? It's not like they would know that the Covenant has the coordinates either, and they would undoubtedly see it considering it was laying about 20 feet from where we last see Six. So, yeah, Six died.
My point stands, the opinion of the creative director is still the opinion of just one member of the creative team, and still an opinion. Its entirely possible that other members of the creative team hold entirely different opinions, leaving it to be interpreted in different ways. This is the massive logical fallacy with using developer commentary for canon guidance.
Er, Elites are of equal strength, and lesser in skill, given that six is one of most skilled spartans ever, second only to John. And yeah, Deus Ex Machina of Jun + Echo team arriving in a hijacked Phantom is still entirely possible. Especially given that's how Dare, Buck, the Rookie and the rest of the team escaped hundreds of Covenant ships over New Mombasa in Halo 3: ODST.
With medical attention from Echo's medic and freezing on the Freyja, one of the last ships to escape Reach, Six can easily be resuscitated at a later date. We also know very little of the final days of the battle, especially in space.
And for AOA
Its not what Bungie says, its what one employee of Bungie says.
Prior point stands of the arrival of Jun and Echo team for the rescue.
And again, my point still stands of Jun air lifts her out and has a medic attend her immediate wounds to stabilise her.
The helmet doesn't have the co-ordinates for earth, and why would it? Its not the navigational computer of a starship, its a helmet for a suit of MJOLNIR. Between waves of oncoming reinforcements and a wounded spartan to evac, they have more pressing matters than picking up a helmet. And the helmet remains there since the plains of Aszod are left for decades afterwards, as a memorial to those that died on Reach.
You seem to have misread/not read my prior comments. Six doesn't get up and walk calmly away from the waves of Covenant attacking her. She's saved by Jun and Echo Team, another unit from SWG3, who drag her back to a Phantom dropship they've appropriated and fly her out of there back to their RV point. The injuries incurred there are so serious she's left in hospital for the rest of the war.
He said it was something that was agreed upon by the entire dev team, rather than just his opinion.
Jun wouldn't come back for him. By the time he got Halsey to safety, he wouldn't be able to get to the surface in time to get Six and get back, nor would he likely know where he is. Remember that after UPPERCUT, NOBLE Team was unable to locate Six for several days.
Even if the helmet did not contain Earth coordinates, it undoubted had some sort of sensitive information in it, quite possibly something that could lead the Covenant to the Earth coordinates. And either way, it seems like a terrible waste to just leave such an expensive piece of equipment there when it's easily within reach.
My point stands that he is stating a fact about a character dying. He is not stating an abstract idea. I would bet that there is no person on the entire team who would deny that Six is dead. It is not an opinion. Even if it is, it's just a member of staff reinforcing what we can see and know.
No. Six is a Spartan III, which are cheaper and more cost-effective than S-IIs, and S-IIs are as strong as an Elite. It is also noted that John is not the most skilled Spartan ever, he's just the luckiest. Numerous other Spartans are more capable in combat than him. And if Jun did happen to somehow scrape together enough Pelicans from CASTLE Base (which, mind you, was completely empty aside from Halsey until Red Team found it), he'd have to fly across at least part of a continent before Six was slain. And then you still run into the issue that there are Phantoms and Covenant Cruisers absolutely everywhere. Please explain how you expect a few Pelicans to make it through a veritable wall of plasma.
Getting to the Freyja, as noted before, would take excessively long. You're talking about a Pelican flying out to a natural satellite, something that takes, for us, days or weeks. And Pelicans wouldn't really be much faster if at all faster than a modern rocket while leaving atmo. Given the wounds that Six would sustain, they'd be long gone and cold before they got close to any ship still in-system.
As for AOA's points:
See AOA's for first four.
Yes, exactly. She can't walk away. We know that Six was hit by multiple plasma rounds, one of which is capable of killing a single SPARTAN-III. And then an indeterminate amount of Elites completely swarmed Six, meaning she would have suffered a lot more damage. Even before the cutscene begins we know that she is severely wounded, due to the cracks on her helmet and the fact that she's taking damage.
"We had a lot of people who were like, "No, we shouldn't end it that way. We should allow the player to play on and, in their heads, keep living."". first paragraph.
Jun went to Castle base and back. Given that Castle Base and the plains of Aszod were on the same continent, and dropships can travel beyond the speeds of modern fighters (In order to travel transatmosperically) the distance can be covered in a very short time. And Jun already knows they're going to Aszod, so he knows where to find him.
Again, why would a MJOLNIR helmet contain starcharts or information on earth? Its central computer would be used for controlling the suit and analysing data gathered by the sensors on the armour. A brain for the armour, so to speak. Given that its been blasted half to hell, there's not much chance for it be of any use to anyone. (Especially given that the Covenant don't even take it.)
Regardless of a staff member's opinion on Six dying, if indeed six did die, there's my prior point of 'Doing a Linda'.
The IIIs are cheaper because of reduced training time and reduced equipment, IE SPI suits instead of MJOLNIR. Their modifications are actually, point for point, near identical to the IIs, but significantly safer. And yes, John is the most skilled II. Aside from being the luckiest, he's the most well rounded, and skilled in every area, making extremely adaptable. Halsey compares six's skill to that of 117, this is all getting off topic though. Meanwhile, Castle base is abandoned when Fred and the others get there, nothing is said of its state of occupation when Jun gets there with Halsey. And I never said he went back in a Pelican, but a hijacked Phantom. Again, as I said to AOA, these craft would be insanely fast, just to break orbit. Covering part of a continent would be a breeze. Covenant space craft have also shown to have some kind of hyper-fast transit device, used when Seraph and Phantom gunboat formations are assaulting Anchor 9.
The Freyja is on Reach. Again, high-speed aircraft, medic treatment in transit, etc, etc. And chances are, Pelican and Phantoms are probably capable of ramping up to Mach 5. They'd need to be that fast to break orbit.
And as said earlier, she's carried back to the Phantom by Jun and Echo.
You neglect that in the end they agreed to have him die, because, if you were paying attention, the level was created with the sole purpose of killing off Six. Lone Wolf wouldn't be in the game if they hadn't agreed to have Six die.
Aszod is huge. Just a general idea of his location wouldn't be enough, especially when the landscape is no longer even recognizable.
I suppose. It still seems illogical and wasteful for it to be left there if he survived.
The likelihood of such medical technology being available in time is slim to none. Six would be lucky to survive even an hour in that condition, and a single medic wouldn't be able to stabilize him.
Not really. Expendable soldiers will be trained accordingly. As in, with the knowledge that they aren't expected to survive, and those don't need to be trained with as much intensity, only just enough to ensure that they complete their task before they all get killed.
Even insanely fast isn't fast enough. This is space, the UNSC is in full retreat, and the Covenant has complete air superiority.
Yeah well, guess what happened. They may have had people disagree in the beginning, but in the end Six got written in as dying. It should be noted that since the Creative Director is there to ensure quality, he'd be one of the final people who gets to say what stays in and what goes out.
This is still a continent you're talking about. It's already going to take dozens of minutes if not a couple of hours to reach Noble Six's location. As AOA said, the rest of Noble couldn't locate Six after the destruction of the Long Night of Solace, and Six is nowhere near where the Pillar of Autumn was when it took off. How was Jun supposed to find Six in the middle of a beehive of Covenant activity?
Fair on the helmet.
You mean the prior point of 'pulling a Linda' which we have rebutted more than once and you have refused to acknowledge?
No, SPARTAN-IIIs were notably smaller and weaker than SPARTAN-IIs. I have seen no canon source that says otherwise. I also want to see a canon source that states John is the most skilled because, as far as I know, it has only been stated he is the luckiest. Sam was noted in the Fall of Reach to have been basically John Plus. Just not as lucky, as it turned out. If you mean Halsey comparing Six's "skills" to Master Chief's, where did that happen? I know about Six being a "hyper lethal vector," but we don't even know 100% what that means. For all we know it just means that they got lucky and have killed a much higher proportion of enemies than is expected. And assuming that Jun did manage to hijack a Phantom somewhere along the line, he's going to draw the full attention of the Covenant who are attacking Six when he goes to rescue Six, isn't he? I want to see him try to snipe his way out of several dozen plasma beams. I also want to know how he coordinates this with the Freyja, how the rapid transport works, and how far it can reach. If all of those vehicles are slipspace capable and had a long range, it seems like they would have just portaled in right on top of Reach's defenses and blown them to shit before the Cruisers came in, and the Covenant wouldn't have even had to worry about the MAC platforms. There has to be more limitations to it than just "it is slipspace capable." Because even Covenant slipspace drives are massive deals.
Pray tell how it would get past the Covenant blockade of literally thousands of ships after being tailed by a Phantom that the Covenant know is carrying one of humanity's most powerful soldiers.
Who would be shot to shit the instant they put boots on the ground.
AOA: Remember these are multiple plasma rounds, likely needler rounds, and energy blade wounds. Six would be lucky to survive longer than a minute after the camera cuts away from the scene.
The ending was chosen because of time constraints.
Between having IFF radio broadcast from six's MJOLNIR, and tapped Covenant comms via the hijacked Phantom, it'd be a cinch.
Its quite lucky biofoam is standard issue for med kits, then isn't it?
Kurt didn't train them to be expendable, they were trained to be Spartans. He even went out of his way to add illegal drugs to their augmentation to increase their chances of surviving.
Covenant aren't going to shoot down one of their own.
In the end, the ending was chosen as a time constraint, and still in no way confirms life, or death.
You make it sound like they only set out to find six the moment she gets in the last fight. Given we don't know the timeline of the level, and how much time passes after whatever events, they can be off screen starting their rescue attempt as six goes down. My point remains on six's IFF and hacked Covenant BattleNet.
So why exactly can't she be cryofrozen when she's returned to friendly territory? You haven't really rebuffed the point, you've just said it would be impossible and never said why. As I said, its quite easily to stabilize six's wounds while on the dropship (blood loss? plasma weapons don't cause you to bleed) and get her onto a cryotube a short while later (With the Phantom likely maxing out at around 3000 miles an hour, the Freyja would just less than an hour away.). Given that spartans continue to remain combat effective in the face of such hideous wounds, for example, Kelly remained combat capable with a collapsed lung and low blood pressure caused by a damaged liver, while Fred went into combat with a torn Achilles tendon, 3 cracked ribs and contusions on both kidneys, Will had a cracked tibia internal bleeding, Dantie (briefly) survived a needler super-combine explosion and John has suffered repeated subdural hematoma, caused by traumatic brain injury, without suffering brain damage. In short Spartans are incredibly hardy and surviving when normal humans simply fail.
There's no canon evidence saying they were weaker in any way. Given their augmentations had near identical effects, the only difference would be genetic, which is mitigated by Noble since they were selected for being superior, even among the IIIs, and using Halsey's genetic selection procedures. And during Operation: Torpedo, the spartans of Beta Company butchered a army of Covenant in close quarters, slaughtering Sangheili warriors on droves. And no point did it say Sam was superior to John, just said he was taller. And Halsey compares six's skill to John in one of the vidocs, noting they are the only spartans to attain 'hyper lethal rating'. And as for drawing attention, Echo probably has a real good electronic warfare specialist to jam their comms so they can escape with easy. And I never said slip-space capable. At the beginning of the space segment of Long Night of Solace, Seraphs use something called an Impulse Drive to reach Anchor 9 at exceptionally high speeds.
At this point in the battle, there are only a few Covenant ships left in orbit. 2/3s have been destroyed during the course of the campaign, and many more disengaged to follow the Autumn. This leaves an opening for the last few warships to punch a hole in the orbital blockade and escort civilian ships out to safety.
7 spartans with a gunship versus infantry on the ground? Yeah, good luck with that. Those elites are gonna get fucked.
Then explain how it took so long to find Six after UPPERCUT. And there are obvious problems with the idea that Covie tech would be able to detect Six's IFF better than that of the UNSC. Plus, I highly doubt that an IFF would take the form of a radio broadcast.
Biofoam wouldn't be enough. Six would be losing blood incredibly fast. Plasma wounds themselves don't bleed, but tissue around the wound suffers from MASSIVE hemorrhaging due to fluids expanding and rupturing said tissue. Biofoam wouldn't be enough to stabilize him considering the level of injury he had sustained. Not to mention that biofoam would do little to fix the fact that Six would have literally had his internal organs broiled from the inside out.
That's Kurt. There were people besides him training the S-IIIs.
Yes they will. Since when do the Covenant care about losing a ship that they have millions of? Especially when they have reason to believe that said ship is in the hands of the enemy.
Except we've explained in countless ways that it in fact does.
Because they'd have to in order for Six to still be alive when they find him.
Six wouldn't live long enough to reach a cryotube.
Except that GoO and Glasslands both say that they're weaker and less disciplined. And Sam has indeed been stated to be just as skilled, if not moreso, than John.
Apparently you don't understand what total air superiority entails. Nothing is getting in or out of Reach's atmosphere at this point. Even if there are only a few Covenant warships left, nothing with significant firepower is engaging them anymore.
Except that once you get rid of those Elites, they'd still have thousands of dropships, Banshees, and other Elites to deal with.
Electromagnetic interference from the slipspace bomb, causing radio signals to be inadvertedly jammed. Also, yes, IFF is radio based. At a few miles out, they'd be able to pick up the IFF clear as a bell.
Plasma wounds cauterize. She wouldn't be bleeding. The surrounding tissue would have their fluids vaporized, causing substantial wounds, but not massive internal bleeding. Also, Biofoam is a self-sealing, space-filling coagulant and an antibacterial, tissue-regenerative foam polymer, that can stop internal bleeding and hemorrhaging.
And yet Kurt and Mendez were still in charge of training.
The Covenant don't know its been hijacked or that its on the run. Thanks to Echo's tech specialist, the enemy's outbound comms are jammed and the vehicle displays the correct IFF on interrogation. Buck and his team pull exactly the same trick escaping from New Mombasa, when the Covenant had hundreds of warships and thousands of aircraft surrounding the city.
Not really, you've continually cited one man's opinion that has been misconstrued as Halo canon.
Mhm. They arrive as the scene changes on the ending. Six rescued and whisked away.
Biofoam would stabilize her for as long as necessary.
And despite supposedly being weaker, they can still defeat elites in CQC, with only SPI armour. Also, citation needed on Sam.
Like I said, last few warships punch a hole in the blockade. Warships have the requisite firepower to knock Covenant airpower for a loop.
Dozens, at best. It'll take less than a minute to drag six out of the battle and onto the waiting Phantom, then whisked away to safety. Given that Echo has the tech-skill to hack into the Battle Net and manipulate enemy comms, jamming any ground forces who can alert the air units to the duplicity, then broadcasting the correct codes to fly away scot free.
DC Ambrose — "Soldiers! Don't fight for slavery, fight for liberty! Don't give yourselves to brutes. Men who despise you and enslave you, who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder! Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men. Men with machine hearts and machine minds. You are not slaves! You are not machines! You are MEN! You have a love of humanity in your hearts! You do not hate. Only the unloved hate. The unloved and the unnatural." - John-117: TALK • CONTRIBUTIONS • EMAIL — Thursday, May 24, 2018
Doesn't change the fact that Aszod is an area quite a bit larger than "a few miles".
The large plasma torpedoes would cause a lot more than simple plasma damage, the splash damage from the shockwaves of plasma bombardment would cause a lot of blunt trauma, which has a very high possibility of knocking around internal organs and causing massive internal bleeding. Third degree burns are often accompanied by open wounds and bleeding as well. It is also highly probably that Six's armor was compromised and heavily damaged, it is unlikely that any internal systems of the armor would be working correctly after taking that heavy amount of damage. Also I'm fairly sure that it wasn't until generation VI of the MJOLNIR armor that bio-foam dispensers were introduced, as Six had to make use of med-kits to heal himself.
Gamma company is the one you're thinking of, Six was from Beta, hence, B-312.
There were not only foot mobiles but also Wraith tanks and Scarabs could be seen in the background. Not to mention numerous Banshees, Phantoms, and likely Seraphs and other aircraft patrolling, which would have been alerted by other Covenant forces in the area the moment more UNSC forces joined battle with the troops already stationed there.
See second bullet.
In the heat of battle mistakes are made. One of the rules of military operations is nothing ever goes 100% according to plan, there's always a snag, they would be far from "Scott free" in that dire of circumstances that Six found himself in on that day. Even if they did manage to get to Six they wouldn't get far.
Glassing of the planet has begun, and Reach noted before that Covenant plasma weaponry does create EMP fields.
A single plasma bolt was enough to expose an unshielded S-IIIs lung and internal organs. They wouldn't bleed in the traditional manner, but there would be massive third degree burns.
S-IIIs were created to be expendable. Kurt knew that.
So assuming the Phantom slips under the radar (figuratively), what happens when they get out to collect Six's body? Do all the legions of foot soldiers around just... look away?
Whatevs on the dev thing.
Again, still lots of Covvies about.
Biofoam will hold internal bleeding together. I doubt it would aid the damage caused by severe third-degree burns and numerous stab wounds. Unless it also has a cooling element to it, then it would just insulate the heat, cooking Six even more. Mmm, crispy Spartan.
Only because Spartans are perhaps better trained in martial arts than Elites are. Doesn't do you much good when you're already severely wounded and being stabbed.
Yeah, but the rescue team would have to get to the warships first.
The Covenant still own the skies. I hope I don't have to point out what "air superiority" means.